25 comments on “Behind the Gun Smoke

  1. This is indeed a tragic story for all the reasons you have mentioned and more. And for the life of me, I cannot understand the whole gun culture. People seen to find a sort of false sense of security in gun ownership. People seem to seek a kind of solace in having a gun within arm’s reach. However, I see only a heightened sense of danger in keeping a gun around.

  2. Andre, one of the problems with you using anecdotes as evidence is that you get skewed and bias comments that don’t completely reflect the realities of our society. Those instances will get far more fanfare from gun defenders than stories of where guns were involved with negative outcomes. When you consider the recent University of Pennsylvania study showing how “…people who carried guns were 4.5 times as likely to be shot and 4.2 times as likely to get killed compared with unarmed citizens”, you have a control group who is not accounted for in those studies done by the NRA and other gun advocates.

    Considering those facts, I’m not suprised by this story. It’s tragic, for sure: as are any deaths. But this isn’t ironic at all.

  3. I get where you’re going with this post, Andre. But not even turning the attention to violence against women won’t dismiss that THIS killing (and tens of thousands each year) are directly attributable to guns. Try and defend that if you want. But facts are facts.

    • Leave it up to you to try to make social policy statements based on somebody’s death instead of focusing on the tragedy of the death. No shame.

  4. Andre, I can appreciate your attempt to avoid the temptation of blaming the guns of us “gun nuts” for this. I personally own two guns and I have NEVER had the motivation to use them against another person. So I need to remind you and the rest of the libs who come to your page that not ALL gun owners are trigger happy loons. Zero your attacks on the people who commit the crimes not the ones who don’t.

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  6. Andre, as you know politics and social policy has never been my thing. All I can say here is that my prayers are with the children. It has to be unimaginable for children to see one parent kill another.

  7. If her husband hadn’t popped a cap in her ass, I bet she would’ve did it her damn self. One day, these idiot gun people will realize that having them around puts them in more threat than not having them around. Of course by that time, they would’ve all shot themselves or somebody else.

    • Anon, that’s unnecessarily harsh. The physical weapon of choice here was a gun…no argument there. But what got Hain killed was a spout of jealousy. If her husband had any other weapon at his disposal to finish her off, he would’ve used that as well.

      I’ve been LONG PAST the point of wanting to see better gun control enforced in this country. But finding something to celebrate about a person’s death is classless, man. No two ways about it.

      • Normally, I would understand your point. But these gun nuts don’t seem to care when other innocent people getting killed by guns. Why should I care about her? Not only that, she was killed chatting with a boyfriend. She brought most of this on herself.

        So much for guns making people safer.

  8. Hey Dre,
    Man, I’m getting tired of repeating myself. However, sooner or later you Anti-gun Liberals (I’m not addressing the rest of you) will have to face the facts. First, It’s wrong to stereotype ANY group of people based on exampling. You all seem to get this when it comes to blacks or gays but for some reason it’s perfectly O.K. when it comes to gun owners, Republicans, Conservatives, Christians, Tea Partiers or any other group you disagree with-your hypocrites plan and simple. Second, learn to separate legal from illegal guns and you’ll see where the problem truly lies (http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/press/fuopr.htm) Disarming illegal gun owners and harsh penalties for violaters will work, but your too concerned with the rights of criminals and not concerned enough with protecting the innocent-except when they get shot and THEN your outraged.

    • HC, I don’t see anywhere in this commentary where I took swipes at gun folks. As I’ve repeatedly stated, this particular post is NOT about gun control, 2nd Ammendment issues, disarmament or whatever. This post is about domestic violence. Please re-read this post and find that. If you’re talking to the other folks specifically addressing gun control, fine. But my post has got nothing to do with that.

      I DO find it interesting through that you’re putting gun owners in the same category as blacks, gays, and other marginalized groups. The NRA has a much more potent and robust lobbying machine at its disposal than blacks or gays will EVER have. So victims, they are not. Trying to label these folks in the same groups is like trying to compare the lifestyles of celebrities with those of the average citizen.

      All that nothwithstanding, I’ve been through with the gun debate for a while now. It’s pointless, a waste of time, and no real substance ever comes out of the discussions.

      • Hey Dre,
        I thought I made it clear I wasn’t talking about you or anyone else in the group that wasn’t anti-gun when I said, “However, sooner or later you Anti-gun Liberals (I’m not addressing the rest of you) will have to face the facts.” I apologize to you and anyone else that misunderstood my intent. I appreciate your support along with some of your group. However, I don’t think there should be a hierarchy of groups of people it should or should not be O.K. to stereotype. If it’s O.K. to stereotype groups who are not “marginalized”, then, who gets to decide who’s marginalized? I personally find Pro-Gay agenda groups to be VERY powerful. Why else is Obama bowing to them and why are they flaunting their power? This is the nature of our present system and of course some are going to have more power than others. I don’t find it to be a good excuse to do something that is fundamentally wrong-stereotyping by using exampling to vilify a whole group because of the actions of a few. Once again, I wasn’t refering to you and I personally find your position on guns to be reasonable and well thought out.

    • Andre, you clearly have chosen to avoid calling a spade for what it is in the interest of being politically correct. No matter how many innocent people (and, yes, that includes Mrs. Hain) are killed specifically by guns, you’ll have folks on the right – fed no doubt by the PR machine you mentioned – crying and whining about “their rights.” In this country, people do exactly what Obama said (note, he took some flack for saying it, but he’s 100% correct): we starting “clinging to our guns…” just because the Constitution sorta says so. Granted, the constitution was talking specifically about taking up arms against a standing militia. But I won’t even go there today. Anyway, people DO want to cling to their guns without any sense of the dangers they’re putting themselves AND OTHERS in. That’s why these evils can’t be brushed over just for the sake of not offending some people. Shit, when’s the last time you heard of mass killings with a knife, and pan, or a person’s bare hands? Almost always, guns are the culprit. You keep turning a blind eye to that fact just to be PC, and you’re really no better than the people who tirelessly defending this nonsense.

      • So, I’m taking shots from BOTH sides of this debate…and I have even TAKEN a side in this post?! Wow. I don’t know where to begin.

        Is this a sign I’m moving up in the world?

      • Hey Mike,
        “Shit, when’s the last time you heard of mass killings with a knife, and pan, or a person’s bare hands? Almost always, guns are the culprit.”

        While it’s true that ILLEGAL guns are the weapon of choice for killing, don’t kid yourself into thinking that there would be no mass killings without them. 3000 people died at WTC without a gun. Thousands die around the world using IED’s, even in the Columbine shootings they had more bombs than any other weapons. http://acolumbinesite.com/weapon.html But don’t let facts stand in the way of a good illogical rant.

  9. Hey Dre,
    “Is this a sign I’m moving up in the world?”
    YES! ABSOLUTELY! Taking a middle of the road, rational view of things will guarantee you will be attacked by the radicals from both sides. Don’t you understand Dre? WE’RE the threat! We don’t buy into the fear-mongering which puts the whole world at risk from Right-wing racists, Gays, Militias, Feminists. Gun nuts, Liberals or whatever group is going to overpower us and KILL US ALL! Welcome aboard! I couldn’t think of anyone I would rather have on my side.

  10. Dre, I’ve had a chance to think about this for a while. I’ve come to an obvious conclusion that both sides of the gun control debate are extremely sensationalized. On the pro side (backed not only by gun owners, but also with an EXTREMELY powerful lobby), they’ll have you believe that gun control will allow criminals to reign supreme, like Gotham City without Batman. On the anti side (who don’t have a powerful special interest group but has an equally strong ally in the media), they’ll have you believe that each time a person is killed with a gun we need more gun control. Violence by any other means? Meh. No call for bans on knives, cars, alcohol, or any number of things that kill people.

    Now, I’m definitely FOR some level of gun control. But I don’t think we should get so gung ho about getting rid of guns that we forget about the reality that there ARE criminals out there. They aren’t going to magically stop using guns for crimes. People should be able to use guns in defense. If Meleanie Hain had her gun around her, she might still be alive today.

    • KC, you said it yourself: this was NEVER about gun bans. The issue on the table is about gun CONTROL. There’s a difference. Glen Beck caused a frenzy when he had people believing that the government was literally going to start taking guns out of people hands. He was clearly distorting the facts and people bought it.

      Like you, I don’t have a problem with guns existing in our society, But I also think gun CONTROL is important. I don’t think mentally challenged people, felons, and other people who pose threats should be allowed to own and carry. And while it’s true that even “sane” people can commit murder, how many times do you hear stories where the killer had “mental issues?” A lot! THAT needs to be addressed also…mostly by the NRA who (as far as I can tell) have not used their power in support of such measures.

  11. One more quick observation: it’s interesting to see so many black people opposed to guns, when we’re the ones most frequently subjected to passive law enforcement. I remember growing up in Trenton and it could take police HOURS to respond. Had my father not had a gun in the house, there’s no telling what could have happened to us.

    Not that I think people should go out and stock up on entire arsenals and call it “protection.” But having a gun around (especially in high crime areas) isn’t all bad.

  12. You know what makes me chuckle? In our country, having guns = a right. Having quality and affordable health care = a priviledge. Did I miss something here?

  13. Nice to see the debate take a thoughtful and civil tone, K.C. I particularly liked your thoughts.

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