22 comments on “From Oppressed to Oppressor…?

  1. I’m with you 100% Dre. When I saw MSNBC call the election for Obama, I fell to my knees thanking God for allowing us to see this day. Then I read about this story and fell to my knees in prayer. What a difference a day makes, eh?

    It disturbs me immensely that some of the very voters who used the power of the vote to end age-long discrimination on one hand would turn right around and propagate that same discrimation on the same ballot. Make no mistake about it: I’m 100% black and 100% heterosexual. But I’m also 100% unnerved.

    Christ = LOVE!!!

  2. Dre, this post is detrimentally misleading. You’re correct in saying that a vast majority of black people supported the ban. But what you left out is that the black electorate in California was only about 7%. A more accurate variable to use in your analysis would be church attendence in general…including white and latino church goers. It’s inaccurate and unfair to place the blame squarely on the shoulders of black people when you take into account the overwhelmingly large electorate and how small of a role blacks played in filling that.

  3. I should point out that I actually agree with how shameful it is Prop 8 passed. But not for the reasons you’re claiming.

  4. I have to admit: I’m got my prejudices against gays and lesbians. I’m not a geneticist or anything, but the stuff just doesn’t seem natural. I’m not saying people chose who they are attracted to, but they CAN decide whether or not to engage in homosexual activity. If I had the option, I would’ve supported the ballot.

  5. Before I’m labeled a bigot (I hope you all don’t see it that way), I think there is a HUGE difference between loving somebody and supporting their behavior. I agree that all people should be loved and respected and treated with liberty. No one has the right to stop homosexuals from being together, living together, etc. But the government can do all they can to preserve moralistic standards. For the same reason why people aren’t allow to have sex with/marry children, homosexuals can’t marry. In this case, democracy has spoken.

  6. J. Alex, I don’t think anybody’s saying that you have to be for homosexuals. Just their rights. What two consenting adults do (who, by the way, are legally able to enter into a contract) should be none of our business. To deny somebody rights based on a lifestyle we don’t personally agree with makes us no better than other groups with shameful and bigoted histories.

  7. J. Alex, I can appreciate your honesty in dealing with this situation and I respect your courage in speaking out, so please don’t see this as an attack. I certainly don’t see you as a bigot. But I disagree with the premise of your argument. I maintain that any two consenting adults who want to have a union (marriage or otherwise) has absolutely NO affect on me or you. And I highly doubt that floodgates will be opened by allowing GLBTs to have the rights of married couples.

  8. wow, Andre. you’re comparing voting for Obama to voting for homosexual marriage. how can you even compare the two? How does one dimish the other? I think that comparison is completly unfair. Also why should people be expected to vote for something that they don’t believe in? The oppresion of Blacks has nothingto do with the “oppresion” of gays. I’m surprised at this analysis…..

  9. p.s. we have to stop the premise of thinking that what “so-in-so” do over here has nothing to do with me so why should I care. That could not be further from the truth. I will share more when I can get to my computer (sending from phone)…..

  10. Wow. Clearly, you put a lot of work into this post. I think California will live to regret the reversal. Thanks for sharing the Keith Olbermann clip.

  11. @ Kenya:

    “You’re correct in saying that a vast majority of black people supported the ban. But what you left out is that the black electorate in California was only about 7%.”

    The point being: that 7% electorate could have shifted the results either way. But again, I’m not saying that blacks were the sole game changers here; no more than us being the ones who put Obama in office. Overwhelmingly winning the black vote doesn’t secure a victory. But not securing the black vote means the whole world. Ask John McCain. As the opponents of Prop 8.

    @ Jos: To me, the comparison is crystal clear. My interest in this topic specifically lies in the reality that it’s not just white folks who were affected by this. There is a clear intersection between blackness and homosexuality; one that too many people have tried to ignore (much to our detriment). Have you been to a black baptist church lately? I mean, gay dudes are all over the place. If for no other reason than opposing legislation that even hurts our own, black folks should have kicked Prop 8 to the curb.

    Though I’m a heterosexual black man, I don’t think the movement toward social justice stops at race. It includes any marginalized groups who find their rights stripped away for WHATEVER reason. Homosexuals, rehabilitiated criminals, miscegenate couples…anybody who may fall outside of the mainstream. I think Keith Olberman put it best: people who engage in activities that WE may not agree with are still people nonetheless. But it’s easy for us to be callous about somebody else’s struggle when we’re apart of the privleged group (the privileged group in this case being non-heterosexuals).

    When Dr. King coined his famous phrase “Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere…”, I hope you don’t think he was just referring to racial injustice.

    @ Deb: I’m sorry I had to post this. I’m embarassed for our people right now.

  12. When it comes to matters of religion and morality, I’m as conservative as they come. Also to the point, I don’t think the struggles faced by the LGBT community are in NO WAY similar to the struggles blacks have faced. But putting my personal feelings aside, I think it’s important for us as followers of Christ to at least be sympathetic to their cause. To me, fairness and love overpower moral right and wrong. So even when I understand WHY the proposal passed, I can’t get passed the idea that it should NOT have passed.

  13. You know what’s ironic about this story (other than what you’ve already pointed out in this post); some of the biggest proponents of Prop 8 were folks from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints – the same group who historically denied blacks the opportunities of priesthood. But I guess if you can find a common threat (homosexuals) the alliances don’t matter.

  14. Hey Dre,
    While I know that it’s very fashionable to be on the side of Gay Marriage and very unfashionable to say that your against it, I’ll take the other side just to prove I really don’t care and will not sell out my values due to peer pressure. In order for me to except that a man/man relationship or a woman/woman relationship is equal to a man/woman realationship in the rearing of children (the main reason the institute of marriage was created) I have to except the premise that there is no difference in a man and a woman. That is ridiculous. A child needs his mother more than their father when they’re very young. That’s why only women can breast feed. Young men need their fathers when they reach puberty. No one understands this better than the black family. Without them they act out and end up with no self discipline which hurts them in more ways than I can count. To believe that two men can nurture a baby the way a mother can is, I’m sorry, to deny everything you know in your heart is true. They are not equal in parenting, not because they are any less of a parent or a person as an individual, but because the sum of the two lacks the diversity necessary to do all the jobs. This is not oppression any more than I’m oppressed because I can’t breastfeed. Civil unions and the same rights as married people? Absolutely! Equal in the eyes of the law as a man/woman marriage in the rearing of a child? Sorry, but no.

  15. @ Hippie: “A child needs his mother more than their father when they’re very young. That’s why only women can breast feed.

    Similac, dawg. The baby is still gon’ get fat either way. It just becomes a matter of gettin’ it done naturally or gettin’ it done in the baby aisle.

    Young men need their fathers when they reach puberty. No one understands this better than the black family. Without them they act out and end up with no self discipline which hurts them in more ways than I can count.

    Maybe. What I think young men need most is the presence of strong figures. If they happen to be father figures, more power. But I think surrounding a child/teen with positive figures is most important, even if they aren’t the father (biological or otherwise).

    By the way, I’ve seen some pretty messed up kids coming from two-parent male/female homes. Depending on what study you read released by a certain group at a certain time, causal relationships can be uncovered to support any claim.

    *Side note: The only opposition I have to idea of gay marriage is procreation. With two men or two women, slot A doesn’t fit into hole B (for any of my younger readers who haven’t been introduced to the birds and bees, cover your eyes). In that respect, I think science prevails. But then I check myself. Even in the face of scientically rational arguments against homosexuality, the ultimate question for me is: “How does it affect me?” It doesn’t. What two consenting gay/lesbian people do affects me as much as what you and your wife do. In the end, that’s all that matters to me. Besides, even if “Adam and Steve” can’t procreate, they can adopt. Lord knows our foster care system is in shambles. I’m more scare of/for kids who are the product of foster care than kids raised by homosexual parents.*

    Civil unions and the same rights as married people? Absolutely! Equal in the eyes of the law as a man/woman marriage in the rearing of a child? Sorry, but no.

    I was never a fan nor a believer of the idea of “separate but equal.” Drinking the same water becomes a moot point if it’s done from “Whites Only” and “Colored Only” fountains.

  16. “Maybe. What I think young men need most is the presence of strong figures. If they happen to be father figures, more power. But I think surrounding a child/teen with positive figures is most important, even if they aren’t the father (biological or otherwise).”

    I know I’m not black and not in a position to speak on “black issues’, but the absence of fathers in the home is said to be one of the biggest contributing factors to the state of black youth. But looking around my environment, I don’t even think this is a racial thing. Children in general need their mothers AND their fathers; not some alternate version of the two. I’m with thehc on this one.

  17. @ J. Alex: “…but the absence of fathers in the home is said to be one of the biggest contributing factors to the state of black youth. But looking around my environment, I don’t even think this is a racial thing. Children in general need their mothers AND their fathers; not some alternate version of the two. I’m with thehc on this one.”

    So you cite single black mothers in an ill attempt to illustrate a point about gay couples? Sorry, but that’s pure phail. The two simply do not correlate. What say you of the recently passed Arkansas measure that prohibits gay couples from adopting? Can you srsly claim that to be a good thing? C’mon now…

    @ HC: Duly separate church from state & I’ll concede the term “marriage” to you as well as the like minded, & accept a “civil union” as an appropriate proposal. Until then, carrying on w/ the all-men-are-created-equal except homosexuals rhetoric is just BS.

    After the recent election I am, for the first time in my life, proud of the direction we’re going in…yet it’s blatantly obvious that we’ve got many more “isms” to overcome.

    -n

  18. @ J. Alex:

    I know I’m not black and not in a position to speak on “black issues’

    From my perspective, our exchanges have always been done in respect and courteousness. No need to include the “I know I’m not black…” preface. I won’t discount what you have to say just because you’re not black. Now, go take some tanning pills and join the rest of us soul brothas and sistas. 🙂 *Joke*

    …but the absence of fathers in the home is said to be one of the biggest contributing factors to the state of black youth.

    At the risk of sounding hypocritical given what I just said, this is an issue that…well…black people can speak to more. While I agree that father absenteeism plays a role, there are a number of cultural, social, and economic issues not addressed in your argument that equally contribute to “the state of black youth.” But that discussion is for another day.

    From my personal experience, I can attest that it truly does take a village to raise a child. There were plenty of people outside of just my parents who had a hand in shaping me. My parents – bless their hearts – only introduced me to certain aspects of my manhood. But other folks (extended family, church members, teachers, friends’ parents, etc.) all had an impact on me in one way or another. In many cases, one could argue that they were even MORE influencial than my parents. This isn’t a diss on my parents; I love them and I appreciate EVERYTHING they’ve done for me over the years. I’m simply pointing out that development and support can come from all directions.

  19. Nic: “So you cite single black mothers in an ill attempt to illustrate a point about gay couples?”

    I’m just co-signing with thehc’s contention that it’s best to raise children in a two parent heterosexual home. Studies show that those children are happier, less socially stigmatized, and more likely to succeed. I can imagine a child trying to fit in with their peers when he/she has two mothers or two fathers. That kind of environment should not be forced on a child.

  20. Hey Dre,
    MMMMM, I love a good debate.
    “Similac, dawg. The baby is still gon’ get fat either way. It just becomes a matter of gettin’ it done naturally or gettin’ it done in the baby aisle.”
    Your missing my point here-it’s not the milk itself that I’m refering to, it’s the comfort and nurturing that can only come from a mother. The bond between mother and baby simply can’t be done by the father.
    “If they happen to be father figures, more power. But I think surrounding a child/teen with positive figures is most important, even if they aren’t the father (biological or otherwise). ”
    Totally the wrong message to send to a boy in particular. That’s it’s O.K. for a man to wander in and out of someone’s life. Children need stability, girls need to know it’s a long term relationship that will benefit them the most in raising children, not just whatever “father figure” of the week happens by. A father is the first example of how a man should act that she will experience. It’s no wonder women’s expectations are so low.
    “By the way, I’ve seen some pretty messed up kids coming from two-parent male/female homes”
    Bad behavior doesn’t justify lowering the stardard. I expect those people to stop F**king up too.
    “I was never a fan nor a believer of the idea of “separate but equal.” Drinking the same water becomes a moot point if it’s done from “Whites Only” and “Colored Only” fountains.”
    Apples and Oranges
    Individually Gays have the same right to marry someone of the opposite sex as I do. I have never understood this argument. Your trying to extend a right (to marry someone of the same sex.) that no one has. Straight or Gay. In no way is that the same as two separate laws for two different individuals as in your examples.

  21. @Nic,
    “Until then, carrying on w/ the all-men-are-created-equal except homosexuals rhetoric is just BS.”

    Again, Individually Gays have the same right to marry someone of the opposite sex as I do. Your trying to extend a right (to marry someone of the same sex) that no one has. Straight or Gay. In no way is that the same as two separate laws for two different individuals. There is no “separate but equal” going on. If it’s only based on “marrying who I love” then why not polygamy? Why not Children? Are you separating me based on who I love? The law as it stands is the same for everyone, you can’t marry someone of the same sex. No separation, no inequality. Your creating it where it does not exist.
    P.S. Thanks for your support on the other part though.

  22. @ Hippie:

    Your missing my point here-it’s not the milk itself that I’m refering to, it’s the comfort and nurturing that can only come from a mother. The bond between mother and baby simply can’t be done by the father.

    Don’t let feminist groups committed to removing gender roles hear you say this. They’ll burn you at the stake. Besides, what kind of “nurturing” are you referring to? Feeding? Check. Protection? Check. Loving? Check. Outside of conception and breast feeding, it can be argued that gay men can anything a straight woman can do. Besides, most gay men tend to be effeminate anyway. They’ve already got the “mother” thing covered.

    OK. That was wrong, even for me. I know…

    Bad behavior doesn’t justify lowering the stardard. I expect those people to stop F**king up too.

    I think that’s the fundamental difference between our opinions. For me, allowing gay marriage is not necessarily “lowering the standard.” Redefining the standard, for sure. But not lowering it. I don’t think redefinition is all that bad; especially when you consider that the traditional method of doing things has not universally been proven as the best and more reliable way. “Successful” marriages are becoming the minority.

    Let’s face it, dude. This is one we’re never gonna agree on.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s